DD: What was it like—two things: Wolf [Jerry Garcia's signature guitar] comes to Citi Field, you said a great thing, you said: I wasn't ready to play it until I was ready to play it.
JM: It wasn't time until it was time I don't think. That's what I mean.
DD: I love that, it made me so happy. When the guitar shows up, I know somebody else owns it now, of course it was sold. What was it like when you grabbed it, was the action all—cause I know Jerry used to play the action like way high, I guess. Did you—I know your tech added up that day—was it a weird guitar to play?
JM: I played the guitar for a second at my house because I wanted to make sure that it was worth bringing out, cause they were gonna have to take it out of The Met [Metropolitan Museum of Art]. It was right before they brought it to The Met, and I played it and I of course lost my mind. I played it through a Deluxe in my house and I lost my mind.
DD: Just a Tweed Deluxe?
JM: Blackface deluxe. Reverb deluxe.
And I just started playing. I was playing Wolf in my house. I was playing "Sugaree" and something happens when you play the same instrument —and the question was, is it the guy or is it the guitar? And a lot of it is the guitar. And I was surprised to break that down and I started playing "Sugaree," I started playing as many songs. I was so excited I couldn't remember all the songs. “Oh there's this song, oh there's this one!” And here's what changed me forever: the tone of this guitar was so good, obviously, it's the one that's married to those songs.
DD: Of course.
JM: You don't even know if an EMI console sounds good or not, The Beatles recorded on it, it sounds good. We don't know. Because that board made Abbey Road so it sounds good because it sounds like Abbey Road. So this guitar sounds good because it sounds like Jerry right? And all of a sudden all I have to do is go [sings melody], single notes and I'm in heaven. And I realized, “Oh you got to get a guitar where the single notes make you happy.” Cause if you got a guitar where the single notes make you happy, you don't have to play that much at all. I mean, I've heard versions of Jerry playing "Tennessee Jed" playing one note for comping. He's playing just the F string, just one note: [sings melody] “Tennessee” [sings note], it's just one note. It's a tuba.
And so I was like, Oh, it was difficult. It was difficult to understand that this was gonna go away.
DD: Were you, in your mind, were you going, "What could I offer him to buy it?" Who owns that?
JM: Good questions deserve good answers and the answer is yes. Sorry. But I was—my feet came off the ground. And I'm not saying in any way this is a claim—this isn't sword in the stone stuff. I'm not saying like, I am— But how do you not go—like that was, that's what I've been shooting for, of course. It's like saying, “your wife is really pretty, I need to meet a woman like your wife.” And then being like, “Actually, it's your wife.” You know? You can’t do that. You gotta find someone like a person's wife. So I had to give the guitar back and I went “this is beautiful, this is great, let's do it.” And then I got it at Citi Field [June 23, 2019]. And here's the skinny on that guitar: The guitar needs upkeep, that it hasn't had.
DD: Fret dress.
JM: Oh, it needs a refret. It needs a refret.
DD: Refret. Cleaned. Probably a bunch of old mold on the pots.
JM: The neck pickup is disconnected.
DD: Oh, shit.
JM: There's two cables that should go to the neck pickup and there's only one. And so it's about a quarter of the volume of a neck pickup.
DD: And that's how you played it?
JM: I couldn't use the neck pickup.
DD: Oh, shit.
JM: So then we start getting into the question—and it's a real age-old collectors question—what is more important: to keep the guitar in it's like DNA perfect form, or do you keep the guitar in good health?
DD: A lot like watches.
JM: Sure. You know, like Rolex would say that the loom is cracked. We're gonna put new loom on it. You go “don't you dare”. But to Rolex, well you want the hands to light up!
So for me I go “well it'd be a lot easier to play if the frets were redone," but that's not up for me. That's not up to me to say that you should redo the frets, cause I think the guitar, it means something to people in its complete unchanged state.
DD: 100%. As I stared at it at the Met, you know, you’re just looking at it.
JM: I don't know, I mean that's up to the owner. You know, the owner gets the right to do what they want with it. And I think if you own that guitar and the world knew it, and you felt a certain stewardship it'd be really hard. I mean you could solder the neck pickup back, that'd be nice. But I don't think it's — right now—I know I'm not sure the guitar is meant to be played by a bunch of people, and that makes it more of an honor. And so here's what happens, I get the guitar and it's quite tricky to play because the frets are just worn down.
DD: Right so you're gonna battlin’ it.
JM: I battled it for half the night and I think by the end of the night I got it to move the way I wanted it to move. But it was tricky because I also have this PRS 594.
DD: That plays like a mother fucker.
JM: That plays like a Ferrari! [Laughs]
DD: Yeah right behind ya!
JM: So this thing plays like a Ferrari, I'm playing Wolf, which—it was a molecular honor, like down to the molecule it was an honor. I mean, this guitar was animated, it was anthropomorphized, you know. And I sort of played—it was the lead singer and I was the guitar.
We kind of switched roles for one night, you know. I was the operator but it was the thing. And by the end of the night I had made friends with it. I had figured it out. But that's the thing, I mean the guitar — I mean if you'd brought it to a luthier who didn't know what it was “well this thing needs a refret.” And the question going forward is how much is someone gonna play it and should it have a refret.
DD: Just keep it how it is, I think. Right?
JM: I mean — but you're asking a guitar player though.
DD: Did you make him an offer?
JM: No! I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. But, theoretically would I give a year's salary? Yeah.
DD: Wow! Wow.
When you walked out with it I was fuckin floored cause —
JM: I also don't want to own it. I'll tell you why. Uh, that's too close for comfort. It's too close for comfort. It should be owned by somebody who wants to really think of it as a piece for everybody. And I'm not sure, Dean Delray, that I could own it and continue the stewardship of it as “well this does belong…” If you wanted to think I was an asshole again, I think I could get you to do that again if it turned out that I owned that guitar. That's too close for comfort. That should be owned by an independent sovereign collector who can loan it to people every once in a while to play it. It should not be owned by a player for fear that it would become — no one man should have all that power.
For fear that it would be a sort of brand on someone that they are the next in the bloodline, and I don't think that's true. I think I'd have a really hard time relating to the rest of the world if they were like “ oh yeah, he has Wolf.” I don't think I want that in my house.
But when I played it, uh, obviously the reasonable thought at that moment was well, I mean, how do I get this. But it doesn't take long to think about it, you go “I don't think that's a good idea.” Look at it this way, if I really needed it I could probably get my hands on it. And who could say that, I mean, that's beautiful. But I believe an independent sovereign nation should own that guitar and it should never be owned — no player on the Yankees gets the World Series trophy, right? The organization gets the trophy. And what would happen to a baseball team if one of the players on the Yankees owned the World Series trophy? What would happen between the relationship between that player and the other players on the Yankees?
DD: [Laughs]
JM: I don’t want the World Series trophy. I want an exact replica that looks like a Heisman Trophy.
DD: You know what I liked was that you'd never play it again because to me it's a solid, solid memory.
JM: I agree. I agree.