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John Mayer: The market value of a song, of a good song, is so high right now. I mean, it is absolutely a seller's market. It is a seller's market for songs. Because there are so few songs that really, truly connect with people. So much so that you can now feel radio giving in, and going, we have to play new music, it's our format, but we don't have enough new music. So we're just going to now move down the list. I think that's what we're starting to hear.
Do you know what I mean? I mean, for superstars like Rihanna, they're gonna put every track on that record out [on the radio]. They're just lapping everybody. It's that good. And it's really good. That happens to be really good. Rihanna could win in any decade any time.
If you really want to put a song out that just has a chorus that repeats something four times, you'll have a person. Do three songs that have choruses that repeat, and lyrics that really connect, and you'll have guys at your show in three months. You just will. If you have anything better than a long, drawn-out chorus that doesn't—the worst chorus in the world to me, and I've said this a couple of times, is the chorus that just keeps going. [Sings in mumbling, wordy falsetto.] That's what we're getting to. Because the more lyrics you write, the less editing you have to do. And isn't that easy? To just take the editing scope and just make it so wide and loose that you can just write whatever you want to write. But if I give you eight lines, you're gonna take three weeks to write eight lines. If I give you thirty lines, you're just going to start going. Because now your scope is larger.
People are getting very, very lazy and I think Nashville started it. I think people who came in and interpreted, like, Garth Brooks writing, Shania Twain writing, they misinterpreted it. Cause it was verbose, but it still held its point. They misinterpreted it, and it became this sort of lost-in-translation version of a lot of information. [Sings garbled words from chorus of Carrie Underwood's "Before He Cheats" in mocking falsetto:] "Well I dug my key into the side of his pretty little souped-up four-wheel drive/ Carved my name into his leather seats." That's half! That's half the chorus! That song is called "Before He Cheats," right? But you're not really singing about "before he cheats!" [Hums remainder of "Before He Cheats" chorus]—and here we go—"maybe next time he'll think before he cheats." The only cheating in there is, not writing about him cheating! It's lazy.
Livingston Taylor: You listen to it, and you hear it, and they sing it once, and you think to yourself, I cannot believe that they're gonna sing this three more times. It didn't deserve singing once.
JM: Well, exactly! And hammering your title after the crash. [Imitates cymbal sound at end of chorus] -- "I missed you baby!" That's not -- you have to put it in. It's crafting. You're putting your ideas in and working around your ideas.
So, if you have a song, it's gonna work.
LT: The other thing that I like to say -- that I'm sure you, John, will agree with -- is that if you're playing those same chords that you play, songwriters, and you get sick of them, stop playing them! Go and play songs, get the real sheet music, the full sheet music, not a fake book. Get the sheet music of the songs you wish you had written. And then practice those songs. Practice them, learn them, and then steal them and make them your own!
JM: You can reverse-engineer anything you want! You're really giving away all the secrets. You can listen to a song on the radio and go, "I want one like that." You may think that you're ripping it off, but you're giving yourself too much credit, because you didn't rip it off well enough. So now, you failed at ripping off a song, and you've succeeded at writing your own great new song.
I listened to the Rolling Stones one time, and I went, huh! No B section! I like that! You know? The Rolling Stones are great about getting to the point. They really get straight to the point.
Two things that are happening too much right now in songwriting are B sections and bridges, I think in young songwriters. B sections and bridges are not worth as much as you think they are. They're just ways to stave off either writing the chorus, or you didn't work hard enough on making the chorus connect to the verse, [so] you need to buy yourself a little bit of harmonic leeway to get there. And that's what I've started to do, is just take those B sections out.
I want to know where the chorus is. Nobody ever said you have too many choruses. "That's too hooky! Why do you always go straight to the hook? Why can't you just set it up more?" Nobody's ever said that. The best thing in the world is to have an artist come in and play a song that's too long cause he loves his chorus so much. That's the easiest fix in the world. You go, "you got a really good problem I'm about to tell you about. Your chorus is killer and you know it too much. If you want someone to hear that chorus more? Let 'em rewind the song to hear it over again." That's beautiful.
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